My bible discussions with Carl continue. If you want to catch up, read The Bible says God Exists, God Wrote the Bible, Therefore, God Exists.

Carl writes:

You say that no one in the Middle Ages believed in a “flat earth”.

No, I said, “No one in the Middle Ages of any education believed the earth was flat…. the serfs and peons of the Middle Ages may have thought the earth was flat, but they also believed in dragons and wizards. Certainly, the learned class didn’t believe that, else why would the Queen of Spain sink a whole lot of money into Columbus’s adventure?” Or, as put by Bede, a PhD student who’s done more research on the subject than I have, “The idea that the uncouth people of the Middle Ages thought the Earth was flat is an example of the myth that has been propagated since the nineteenth century to give us a quite unfair view of this vibrant and exciting period.” Or as put by Terry Jones of Monty Python fame, who hosted an extraordinary documentary show about medieval history called Medieval Lives on the BBC, “Take for example the idea that the people of the Middle Ages thought the earth was flat. It simply isn’t true. And yet the New York Times takes it as gospel and, indeed, some get quite cross when you try to tell them that people in the Middle Ages were quite aware that the world was round.

The meeting never happened and the Church never taught that the earth was flat. Irving simply made it all up. And yet it’s stuck. It’s just one of the many, many misconceptions about the medieval world that we don’t seem able to shake off.”

I did pretty good in world history in school and I must disagree with you on that. Although there were some during that time period who suspected the earth was a sphere, the prevailing thought at that time was that the earth was indeed flat. Centuries after the Middle Ages, in Christopher Columbus’ day, not only did many still believe in a “flat earth”, but some felt that if a ship sailed past the horizon, it would fall off the edge. Others feared that sea monsters roamed the edges of the earth waiting to attack unsuspecting ships. Columbus risked his life (and his crew’s) to prove that the earth was round by sailing west to India instead of heading east. His mistake was in underestimating the size of the earth, not its shape. If people back then had read Job and Isaiah’s accounts about the earth, they would have known for a certainty that our planet is round with no visible supports in space.

Perhaps it is time to have your school (it wouldn’t have been a Christian school, now would it?) update their reading material with Inventing the Flat Earth: Columbus and Modern Historians by Jeffrey Burton Russell, where he explains, “Historians of science have known for more than sixty years that Columbus was sharing a widespread belief of his day when he held that the world was spherical. That has not prevented the flat Earth fallacy from continuing to appear in histories.”

You go on to say that the Bible is a book of fables. Tell me, what about your beliefs of evolution and the Big Bang by which the universe came into existence? Those are just figments of imagination. Evolutionists and cosmologists can’t even agree about how to apply these terms. Evolution and the Big Bang are nothing more than theories–not facts.

Nothing more than theories. Hmm, do you know what a theory is, as opposed to a hypothesis or a belief or a myth? Here’s what good enough definition: A theory must allow one to make predictions which can be tested by experiment. When the results of those experiments are as predicted, it lends support to the theory as a good explanation. If the results are not as predicted, they may lead to the eventual modification of the theory, or even its replacement.

A theory is scientifically testable. One theorizes that all matter, space, energy, and time exploded from a single infinitesmal point called a Big Bang. Then one goes about measuring the universe, and one discovers mathematic, astonomic, geologic, chemistry, physics, and biology that all tend to support the theory.

Theory does not mean an absolutely provable fact, but it does not denote a far-out fanciful myth, either. Gravity is a theory. We have not been able to prove gravity. We suspect it may be a force of quantuum mechanics, but we cannot detect or measure gravitational waves (yet). But we have a theory about it, based on evidence and experimentation as old as Isaac Newton noticing that apple falling from the tree to the earth.

So, as far as my “beliefs” in evolution and the Big Bang? All scientific evidence seems to support them. Now, when you can show me replicable experiments and observations that support women turning to salt, men living in the belly of a whale, or eternal damnation in a lake of fire, I’ll start believing the Bible. Until then, the Bible is fables and myths without a single theory to break the monotony.

It is a tragedy that you have little or no respect for the Bible, a book that has done so much good for so many people. If you would stop looking for nonexistent contradictions and so-called irregularities in the Bible, you just might discover that it contains a wealth of beneficial information for people of all ages and backgrounds.

I’ve never refuted the Bible’s worth as philosophical or ethical reading. Do unto others… is one of the universal truths. Love thy neighbor is a noble creed to live by. What I refute are the ideas that the Bible, taken literally, is 100% error-free, contains no contradiction, and accurately depicts the events of humanity with no degree of hyperbole whatsoever.

It is a book for all mankind. Let me explain. If all families followed the Bible’s moral code, divorce would be unheard of. Adultery would be shunned. No one would be in fear of contracting STD’s, such as HIV and AIDS. Husbands would not abuse their wives. Wives would show deep respect for their husbands. Children would be obedient to the loving guidance of their parents. Peace in the family would prevail.

Brothers would be required to marry their brother’s widows. Homosexuals would be stoned to death. Men would marry multiple wives, have sexual relations with their daughters, or have multiple concubines. And if the kids get out of line, kill ’em. And we can forget about interracial couples.

The Bible’s also bad for business. Jack in the Box Bacon Bacon Cheeseburgers, TGI Friday’s Popcorn Shrimp, Murphy’s Oyster Shooters, Sea Galley Crab Legs, and Red Lobster would no longer exist.

Do go on…

Wait…there’s more. If everyone adhered to what the Bible says regarding matters of health, then no one would suffer from the ill effects of smoking and alcohol abuse. Drunk driving would be a thing of the past. Smoking-related illnesses would vanish. Addiction to drugs would cease.

What about all that wine-drinking in the Bible? Seems that it is both okay and not okay.

And lastly, if all mankind obeyed Bible principles, thievery would be gone. Murder would be gone. War would disappear. Micah 4:3 says, “And they will have to beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning shears. They will not lift sword, nation against nation, neither will they learn war anymore.” If a person has been wronged, he will not retaliate because Romans 12:19 states, “Do not avenge yourselves, beloved, but yield place to the wrath; for it is written: ‘Vengeance is mine; I will repay’, says Jehovah.” True peace would exist everywhere among mankind because everyone would be applying the Bible’s command to “love your neighbor as yourself.”

Sounds like a wild-ass theory to me. Can you show me just one society where your theory has been confirmed? You don’t even get this sort of utopia in Utah!

Because based on my anecdotal observations, it seems like the countries and societies with the strongest religious bent have the most of these problems you list. Heck, even the smallest mom-pop-bro-sis nuclear families with the strongest religious indoctrination have the worst of these traits. Who are these perfect Biblical Christians of which you speak? I’ve always said, I don’t have a problem with Christians, if only they’d act like one.

So Russ, instead of attacking the Bible and trying to find flaws in it, get to know what it really says and how it can benefit you personally. I have already suggested who can help you to accomplish this. What have you got to lose?

A firm grip on reality?

Tell me this: Why must one find the Truths of Life from the Bible? If the Bible’s core values are true (Do Unto Others, Love Thy Neighbor, Thou Shalt Not Kill, etc.) then they are true independent of the Bible. If they are true, they should be self-evident. You don’t need a physics book and a PhD to know that gravity is true. Apples fall whether you believe it or not.

I believe many core Biblical truths and I didn’t need the Bible to discover them. What you’re addressing is an imagined need to belong to a God Club. To Christians like you, it is not enough for a person to be good, moral, ethical, and righteous. The Buddhist, Muslim, or Jew may follow every beatitude, virtue, and commandment you deem holy, but if they don’t belong to your exact same Jesus-is-the-Savior club, they’re going to hell.

That’s what really irks me when discussing Christinsanity. FEBACs™ aren’t interested in making the world a better place, they’re interested in recruitment of members for their God Army. They’re interested in using their interpretation of millennia-old mistranslated political texts and Hebrew mythology to bludgeon those they dislike and brainwash the rest.