My father sent out a note protesting the possible upcoming military draft. He sent it to me and many others in his address book. I, of course, had to add my one-fiftieth of a dollar, and I sent it out to all the same people he did. Lo and behold, my little fishing expedition landed this wonderful trophy of conservative thinking. I’ve broken it down for reply, since it was all one big long paragraph full of run-on sentences and no breaks. Enjoy! –“R”R
Russ
Hate to tell you this but in my estimation I firmly believe that you are absolutely ” FULL OF SHIT’.
OK, that’s your right. It will be fun composing this reply to you. Though I have to take your opinions with a grain of salt, seeing as you haven’t yet mastered the concept of paragraphs. (See that key to the right of your ‘ key? That’s called ENTER, and you can use it to separate your incoherent rambling thoughts. And by the way, it’s either “FULL OF SHIT” or ‘FULL OF SHIT’. Try to be consistent.)
You may think it’s irrelevant to the argument, but I don’t. It’s amazing to me when I get responses to my posts. The so-called liberal responses are almost always well-written and eschew the use of profanity or ALL CAPS or run-on sentences. The so-called conservative responses almost always seem to be rife with misspellings, bad grammar, and poor construction.
Since we’re communicating by email and I’ve never met you in person, the only way I can form an opinion of you is by your use of language, writing style, and content. So right off the bat from your first sentence, I can already tell where this is going.
Further more I also think that you ARE one of the “liberals” who very much was looking for just a fun free ride when you went into the military.
Really? A fun free ride? Which part was the fun part of Basic Training, the part where I was running eight miles a day, doing pushups until I collapsed, or being subjected to tear gas during the MOPP training that made me puke?
Are you really going to assert that I joined the National Guard for a “fun free ride” when your president joined the National Guard to avoid serving in Vietnam, used his family ties and big money to get into the Guard well ahead of poor kids, was repeatedly excused from drills to work on political campaigns, and didn’t even bother to show up for drills or physicals during his last year of obligation?
As far as what you done in the military it is irrelevant to me you were -in. But from your liberal view that I am reading you probably would have ran if you had been called upon to defend the very freedoms that you are right now exercising.
Why do you say that? Do you just think that liberals hate America and that we’re all pacifistic pansies who wilt in the face of aggression? Like, say that nasty liberal John F. Kennedy who served so admirably on PT 109? Or that nasty liberal John F. Kerry who volunteered for two terms of duty in Vietnam? How about nasty liberal Senator Max Cleland who lost three limbs while serving in Vietnam?
Now, let’s run down those brave America-loving conservatives in the Administration who so honorably didn’t “run when called upon to defend” or look for a “fun free ride” when they joined the military:
- President George W. Bush: fun free ride in the National Guard, where he didn’t even show up for his last year of service.
- Vice President Dick Cheney: ran when called upon to defend, draft deferments for marriage and education to avoid Vietnam (said he had “other priorities”)
- Attorney General John Ashcroft: ran when called upon to defend, received seven deferments to avoid Vietnam (taught business education at SW Missouri State).
- Republican Strategist Karl Rove: ran when called upon to defend, avoided the draft.
- Speaker of the House Dennis Hastert: ran when called upon to defend, avoided the draft.
- House Majority Leader Ton Delay: ran when called upon to defend, avoided the draft, and offered this compelling explanation: “So many minority youths had volunteered … that there was literally no room for patriotic folks like himself.”
- Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist: ran when called upon to defend.
Now to be fair, there are some Republicans who did serve honorably:
- Secretary of Defense Don Rumsfeld: US Navy 1954-1957… But also was a special envoy to the Middle East and met with Saddam Hussein twice.
- Senator John McCain: US Navy, Vietnam, highly-decorated former POW… But when he ran against Bush in 2000, he was smeared by the Bush campaign so much that Senators Cleland, Kerry, Kerrey, and Robb — all Democrats — came to his defense.
- Secretary of State Colin Powell: US Army career general… But also accused of covering up the My Lai massacre in Vietnam.
It is a silly argument, Joe. Many liberals and conservatives have served our country bravely, and many liberals and conservatives have avoided service (more conservatives than liberals, however, see The Chickenhawk Database. It’s also silly to speculate what I might have done in a combat situation.
Yes, I served in the National Guard in the Army Band in the late Eighties. There were no active duty deployments for my unit, nor any major wars happening at that time. I was discharged before the First Oil, uh, I mean Gulf War.
But my unit had a secondary function which was to serve as attachments to the military police when necessary. So we could have been called and I could have been one of those kids guarding prisoners at Abu Ghraib.
Let me assure you that I love my country and I took my commitment very seriously. I would not have fled to Canada or otherwise gone AWOL if I were called to active duty. And I sure as hell wouldn’t have been shoving phosphorous lights up the asses of helpless Iraqi prisoners.
Oh, by the way, Joe, which branch of the military did you serve in? Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines, Coast Guard? Active Duty, Reserves, or National Guard?
Many people have fought and died for those freedoms. YOU need to wake up and smell the air and realize that this really is a WORLD WAR. The fact that you cant see it, that is scary.
World War? If so, then why isn’t the world fighting it? If the menace you speak of is so severe, why is it just us and the British who are dying? We had no problem forming an alliance against Hitler, Tojo, and Mussolini, but for some reason, no one else in the world wanted to go after Saddam Hussein.
If for one moment you think that the people we are fighting are just a bunch of good ‘ole boys and that if we hadn’t stepped in to their country that they would have left us alone you are just digging the graves of your children and future grandchildren. THEY HATE US. If for no other reason than the fact that we ( one family) wastes more in one year than they probably make in a life time. That I believe is, THE AMERICAN WAY OF LIFE. They hate us get it through your head– they hate us.
Who is this “they” you keep referring to? Are we talking about brown people in general? Or is it Muslim brown people? Or more specifically, Iraqi Muslim brown people? Who is our enemy, Joe? This idea that “they” hate us because they’re jealous of us is so junior-high-school. If anything, “they” might hate us because we prop up brutal dictators, like Saddam Hussein and the Saudi Royal Family, who continue to deny “them” human rights, freedom, and democracy.
I hate to burst your racist, hate-filled bubble, but a huge proportion of the Middle East and Muslim world loves us. Did you think those Pakistani cab drivers in New York worked so hard to get here because they hate us? Do you even know any of these “they” that you are referring to?
I do. Two of my best friends are Muslims who immigrated here from the Middle East. When I asked them why their people seem to hate us so, they looked at me in disbelief. “We don’t hate America,” they told me. “America is something we all aspire to achieve — freedom, democracy, tolerance. What we hate is your foreign policy. You blithely and arrogantly stomp around the rest of the world, ignorant to our culture and traditions and religion. Most people in the Middle East just want you to leave us alone.”
Now, I will admit there is a small minority in the Middle East that does hate us: radical fundamentalist Islamic terrorists. They’ve proved it by committing acts of warfare against America and American targets — the marine barracks in Lebanon, the Pan Am flight over Lockerbie, the World Trade Center bombing of 1993, embassy bombings in Africa, bombing the USS Cole, and most horridly, 9/11.
So why did we shift our focus and resources from Afghanistan and Osama bin Laden to Iraq and Saddam Hussein? Bush himself said there was no connection between Saddam Hussein and 9/11. Even I supported our war in Afghanistan because that’s where the terrorists were and they were supported by the Taliban.
And I love your statement “we waste more in one year than they probably make in a life time.” Is that something to be proud of? Hell, I hate you and me for that! Do you think that egregious wastefulness is the “American way of life”? Maybe you’re right, maybe “they” do hate us for that.
I was born into a family of democrats and I was always a liberal till Mr. Clinton came under the desk( could be jealousy) but that man devastated the strongest military in the world and it is going to take time to rebuild.
At least when Clinton lied it was about a blowjob. How did that affect your life? When Bush lies, it’s about Weapons of Mass Destruction and it affects thousands of Americans and millions of Iraqis.
Now, as to “devastation” of our military. When Clinton took office, in 1992, the budget for the Department of Defense was $298.4 billion dollars. Here’s a look at the Defense Department’s budget throughout the Clinton years:
1994 $281.6 billion
1995 $272.1 billion
1996 $265.8 billion
1997 $270.5 billion
1998 $268.5 billion
1999 $274.9 billion
2000 $294.5 billion
So, yes, it would appear that in the late nineties, Clinton did reduce the Defense budget by about 3% each year through 1998. Do you consider 3% to be “devastation”? What is it the military couldn’t do with $265 billion that they could do with $298 billion? I figure that maybe they had to do without a few $600 toilet seats and $400 hammers. But even then, by the time Clinton leaves office the military budget is back up to $294.5 billion!
Oh, by the way, during that time that Clinton reduced the expenditures to the military and other budget items, we experienced the first budget surplus since the 1960’s, the strongest economy of my lifetime, record low unemployment, and an incredible stock market. Aren’t you conservatives all about fiscal discipline?
It is NOT President Bush who sent our fighting men and women into battle without the proper equipment it was damn liberal democrats from the past with their pansy assed views who did not appropriate the funds in the past to outfit them properly.
I see. One of my favorite parts about arguing with conservatives is this mantra:
If it’s good, it’s because a Republican is in office.
If it’s bad, it’s because a Democrat was in office before.
For example: The economy sucks now not because of Bush’s policies, but because Clinton messed everything up in the 1990’s. Clinton’s economy was awesome, but that’s only because Reagan and Bush fixed everything in the 1980’s. Hmm, by that logic, can we assert that Jimmy Carter’s economy sucked because of what Nixon and Ford did before him?
Now, to the damn liberal Democrat pansies. Here’s the political membership of the House and Senate from 1991 through today:
Senate House
Years Dems Reps Others Dems Reps Others
1991-1993 56 44 267 167 1
1993-1995 57 43 258 176 1
1995-1997 48 52 204 230 1
1997-1999 45 55 207 226 2
1999-2001 45 55 211 223 1
2001-2003 50 50 212 221 2
2003-2005 48 51 1 205 229 1
So, Democrats controlled two Congresses, from 1991-1995. Since then, five Congresses have been firmly in the control of the Republicans (Cheney breaks the Senate tie in 2001-2003). So who was it that “did not appropriate the funds in the past to outfit them properly”?
While we’re talking about supporting the military, what do you think of President Bush cutting the hazardous duty pay of active duty soldiers? How about his recent budgets that gut the support for the Veteran’s Administration? What do you think of military families that are forced to live on Food Stamps because they aren’t getting paid worth squat? What do you think of families of servicemen who are holding bake sales so they can buy old Vietnam-era flak jackets to send to Iraq to patch up armor-less Humvees?
As for the draft: hell yes!! Get it started, We need to re invent the military and build it up to the strengths that it needs to be so that we can, if we need, to DEFEND ourselves as we are now doing.
How many of your kids are aged 18-26, Joe? Even the top officials of the military don’t want a draft. They’ve seen the benefit of an all-volunteer military: higher morale and better recruits. Remember the last use of a draft-based military in a foreign war? Vietnam ring a bell? That sure turned out well, didn’t it?
We are DEFENDING ourselves, they attacked us. Unprovoked because of hatred for our lives and our beliefs.
To quote Reagan*, “there you go again.” Who is “they”? Are you referring to September 11th, 2001, when we were attacked by fifteen (out of nineteen) Saudi Arabian hijackers, led by a Saudi Arabian exile named Osama bin Laden who funds his operations with support from Saudi Arabia? Well, then, by all means we should go and attack Iraq!
Remind me, please, of exactly when it was that Iraq and Saddam Hussein attacked America?
My belief is that, “Hell yes any one AMERICAN is worth more than any ten of any other country.
Hmm. How mighty Christian of you. And how very American of you, considering that part of the Declaration of Independence that says “all men are created equal.”
I am speaking of an American who loves their country and will defend her if called up on to do so. An American is some one who is a legalized citizen first. An American is proud of their country and will help them selves and others.
Where are you going with this, Joe? Are you aged 18-26, likely to be drafted if there is a draft? Or are you going to run out and volunteer for the armed forces? And what does that part about “legalized citizen” mean? Did you know that there’s many servicemen who aren’t yet naturalized US citizens, who volunteer for the military in exchange for US citizenship?
It is not the ones who run around cussing the way things are, all the while with their hand out for the free, just print it up money liberal hand outs that are available today
Liberal hand outs? Hmm, would that be the massive taxpayer-funded bailouts of failing mega-billion-dollar corporations like the airline industry? Would that be the massive taxpayer-funded bailouts of failed savings-and-loans that were plundered by the likes of Charles Keating and Neil Bush? Would that be the huge amounts of federal services like roads, infrastructure, police protection, military protection, and much more received by corporations that headquarter in Bermuda to avoid paying their share US federal taxes?
And the very definition of “just print it up money” is deficit spending. You know, like Reagan, Bush Sr., and Bush Jr. The only president of the past twenty years who didn’t have to “print up” a bunch of extra money was the one who ran a budget surplus.
…, people who exercise their rights as an American and VOTE. From your letter I would expect that you are a registered voter and you do vote. Although I believe that you are a misguided LIBERAL with your head in the sand.
Oh, yeah, not only do I vote, I also volunteer and go out and register other voters, because I’m aware of the fact that the higher the voter turnout, the more Democrats win. But how is it that I have my head in the sand when I can pull up such indisputable facts as the Republican control of Congress since 1995, federal military budget expenditures, lack of military service from our executive branch, the identity of the hijackers from 9/11, and a working knowledge of grammar, spelling, and punctuation, while the best you can do is “they hate us because we’re so wasteful” and other misguided, hate-filled, racist propaganda from Rush and Hannity?
I would guess that from this letter that you can tell there is no way in hell that I would vote for the other CS who is running for President.
Who, Ralph Nader? Because I assume that “CS” stands for “chickenshit”, so I know you can’t be referring to John Kerry, a man who volunteered for Vietnam, served two tours when he was only required to serve one, and received three Purple Hearts, a Bronze Star with Valor, and a Silver Star. A man who turned his swift boat back upriver in the face of incoming hostile Vietcong fire to rescue a comrade who’d fallen off the boat.
What is funny though, is since he has been running that the only agenda that he is running on is –BEAT BUSH. That is it just plain and simple BEAT BUSH!!!!!!!!!!!!
How many exclamation points did you need for that sentence?
I know you only watch Fox News and listen to Rush, so I doubt you’ve had a chance to learn John Kerry’s agenda. You could take a moment to surf to http://www.johnkerry.com/issues/ so you could remove your head from the sand for a moment, but I doubt you will. I guess I could just hope that you forget to leave the house on November 2nd.
And what is wrong with the agenda of Beat Bush? Don’t you suppose that Bush is running on the agenda of Beat Kerry? If not, then why do all of his political ads consist of attacks and smears on Kerry rather than accomplishments of Bush? Besides, when your opponent’s poll numbers are sinking like a stone, when book after book of negative revelations come out from former Bush officials, and when incidents like Abu Ghraib, lack of WMD’s, the spying of former Bush-protégé Ahmad Chalabi, the failure to find Osama, the leaking of a CIA operative’s name, and the continuing quagmire in Iraq keep the nation’s attention, why get in the middle of all that? When your opponent is digging a hole for himself, let him.
Very truely your Republican Bush voting opponent, Joe Egusquiza
Very truly yours, your spell-check using Democratic Kerry voting opponent,
“Radical” Russ Belville — Portland, Oregon, USA
*As I write this, my wife informed me that President Reagan just passed away. Despite my hatred of many of his policies, I don’t take any pleasure in hearing that news. My condolences to Nancy, Patti, Ron, and the rest of his family.